I was in the thread you're talking about, the idea posted there was hilarious OP and included things like a 500% damage buff, full T2 resists, and other completely imbalanced hilarity. This is much more reasonable and involves fair trade-offs as opposed to "siege up and everything dies".

For PVE boost the Tractor Range to the Jump Range ak 120km
and give it a salvage or salvage drone Bonus

Not going to dig through 74 pages to find if it was mentioned already.

I dont see why should I prefer Marauder over Carrier for nullsec ratting. Carriers have better tank, more DPS, better projection, dont have to deploy and cost only a tad more. So what's the point?

So why are you reducing the ships capacity to use drones?

If you are going to limit to bandwidth to dictate what size drones can be used, there is no need to reduce the drone bay. It is a curious decision when you look at the Kronos... It can use 5 medium drones but can also only carry 5 med drones. Once is loses one is has no ability to replace it withouts restocking at a station.

The Kronos should either have a bay big enought for 10 med drones or the bandwidth should be reduced to 25... Personally, I'd prefer the former.

I am terribly sorry for posting this insignificant thing in this thread full of insightful analysis and all, but I really wanted to rant about how Amarr ship is getting effectively one less bonus (pretty much static 25% cap bonus from ship prerequisites). I hope that there will be uses to Paladin's mighty (compared to other marauders, 30% more than closest pursuer, plus slightly faster recharge) capacitor that can justify this design (as long as any benefits from that aren't eaten by lasers).

Well, I admit, that wasn't totally right. I'm well aware on how powerful Paladin's cap is at this point. I just wonder if ability to fully benefit from lasers' projection and that cap will be enough to make up for lack of selectable damage type (and that "bonus slot") on such kind of ship.

That said, it probably won't be a drawback in many cases. And then there is an option to shut guns down to keep tank going when other ships can't while waiting for corpmates in case of things getting hairy. So I actually think that this Paladin suffers from that "Amarr syndrome" the least, but it was funny to see again

On something different: are marauders going to keep their partial T2 resistance profile?

97 pages of suggestions, but I get the distinct impression that we're talking about "limited feedback" and that the core design is more or less set in stone (since the only 'tweak' thus far has been with respect to the skill for Bastion). So I guess it's on to the next class of ships (Black-Ops?) Btw, you went from suck to blow with that link to the new animation...

I think you missed the point, which is that out of 97 pages of feedback - only one really minor change to the skill has been implemented (and not the one that was in fact suggested by players). It just seems like feedback is more of a placebo for players than anything else.

either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you.

wtf? webber is completly useless on the golem...

To quote this other post.



And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations.

Then choose appropriate hull... It's not that hard.

That sounds vaguely familiar with what was said about Titans when they were introduced and how they would be so expensive that even the largest alliances would only have a couple, but now look where we are.

Bastion 100% Rep Bonus...

This why armor reps need new mechanic. For example constant heal when armor rep ON. Not a chunk of hp at the end of cycle. Just constantly repair.

Knowing that the server is limited in how it processes information doesn't negate the general idea. You could simply implement it as HP/sec instead of total boost amount at the end of a cycle.

Aside from being able to salvage on the fly there isn't a lot going for them, the pirate BSs, specifcally mach and vidi are just plain better.

Can anyone help me understand why you would need bonuses to webifiers on a cruise missile Golem?

Am I missing something here?

So other than saving on ammo, what is the advantage? Overtanking? Ship speed? DPS? Nothing matched up. My mach goes over 650 m/s on after burner and has a sig smaller than passive drake...with over 900 DPS to boot, it was basically a matter of charge destroy and bail.

What exactly is the motivation to train ANOTHER x10 skill and buy another expensive ship....that can't match any of it?

The Bastion Modul is awesome, but no Ship should be forced to use a specific Modul to be usefull... (maybe Stealth Bombers are the only exception...) but anyway, Marauder should use Bastion as possibility not as a must have.

you mean liek Rof bonus for projectiles? Or god.. damage bonus for hybrids? OMG BONUS for modules!! REMOVE THEM REMOVE THEM!!!

You mean like tempestas ataht are useles without guns? Or vagabonds without prop modules?

Or huggins without webs? Or Falcons without jammers?

Face it.. what you describe is exaclty how eve is for several years!!!

Just another thought, and admittedly spitballing.

What if the bastion module only kept these traits:
standard movement restrictions
increased range
EWAR immunity
cant be remote assisted

removed:
the additional tanking attributes

But add:
Transforms into a heat + energy efficient, but immobile platform.
No penalty for overloading modules while in bastion mode. (or maybe no penalty @ thermal dynamics V)
optional: Cap use for all modules decreases by x%. (10% ish?)

50% reduction to E-War (Can receive remote assisting bonuses)

Don't worry, well be home by Christmas.

Due to time constraints, the videos won't arrive quickly to your inbox. However, if you think any hulls in particular are going to be more likely to fail than others just send me a message and I can do those first.

Care to make a wager out of this? :)

Guys, don't you have impression that DEVs have forgotten this topic long time ago ?
When was last response ?

Up to now story is like:
1. far from beeing perfect changes proposal
2. fix to changes makeing things even worse
3. silence ...

The third one is what worries me most.
I wonder if there will be anyone brave enough and patient to go through almost 200 pages of posts and make summary.

BR,

No... U !

because then explain me why bother with so long training time and pricetag.

crying is 100% legit and rightful.

When my Redeemer starts looking like a viable comparison to my Paladin for most applications in Eve, then the proposed changes to the Marauder are beyond awful.

The only thing in high sec? Of course not.
But a large chunk of it, damn right.

Have a look at any day's online population.
On any given day, there is between 3% and 7% of the entire online population in the Incursion constellation.
The percentage of all the high sec players, obviously higher.

If there are no bonusses on torp range for the GOLEM.. this is a useless post..
not even if they put twice the amount of torp launchers on..

Funny how transforming into bastion mode increases the weight 10 times!!!! it's like making weight out of nothing.

Sounds like a title for a po*n movie...

"The team who lost a deployed marauder gets 2 points (Note: you can self destruct your own marauder to award your team 2 points)"


Why, think of it " YEAH, SUCK IT LOOSES....shite!"

You should encourage that sort of thing.

I think CCP have a Choice to search a other way for marauders.
Marauders can be the best pve ships but they don't must have the superior dps or agility.

Give the Marauders 2 special Maruader Items.
1. a area of Effekt Tractor Beam only for marauders
2. a Area of effekt Salvager

This two Item make a marauder superior and unique and give them a PVE advantage.
Combine this with Bastion mode and u have a isk machine without touching dps or something.

And the PVP mates sorry u have bastion with 2 utility Slots.

At the Moment is Salvaging/loot with a Marauder Pain and have no sense.

Because ccp is re-balancing Marauders for winter release and it is time to give a hand to its outdated salvaging mechanics. This is the correct thread you're in. Welcome aboard.

I Think CCP has done a good job with these ships now the balance is good however i think that 8 highs is too many i dont see the need for these ships to be given n extra high slot in order to fit the Bastion module, i think they should be left as 7 high slots, then the Vagur can have 1 extra low, and the rest an extra midslot.

I wouldn't give another mid to the Vargur or you run the risk of someone rolling an nye-on unbreakable ASB tank. the golem would still get a mid to allow it to use a web and paint at the same time.

Hey people,

We've been away from this thread for a while to let things cool down a bit.

With Rubicon coming to Singularity soon, we've decided to revert Marauders to the original design for now, as we want to see how they actually fare in practice within player hands before committing to the version 2 change. We will let you know if and when we move to version 2 again. WeGÇÖll most likely open a new thread when they appear on Singularity as this one has become quite convoluted.

That means:

• Shield, armor and hull resists in Bastion Mode only
• Keep the 37.5% tank bonus on the Marauders, no web bonus

We are also aware this won't please everyone here - regarding their comparison with Pirate Battleships, especially the Machariel, please remember we have stated many times Pirate hulls were due for a rebalance, with Angel Cartel being on the front line for tuning changes.

Thanks for your time.

so whats the current state?

Maybe*.

1st version: with rep bonus / bastion ressist bonus / without T2 ressist
2nd version: without rep bonus / without bastion ressist bonus / with T2 ressists / with webifier bonus

3rd (current version) is 1st version again or with rep bonus / bastion ressist bonus / with T2 ressists?

this is the only thing where I am not sure .... T2 ressists.... yes or no....

from counting and checking the other posts which appeared here I am assuming that T2 ressists are now out so they should maybe correct desctiption for hulls in first post because there are T2 ressist.

Wow....
Version 2 created some ships that would be actually useful for something other than extremly risky c4 site running.

Sad to see that they get nerfed into the ground again. I'm glad I haven't put the marauder skillbook into my Skllplan yet.

In version 1 they have a beasty local tank but thats about it. 1 neut ship will kill them and a 100km jump every 60sec wont safe you from tackle.

The web addition wasn't completely stupid (except for the golem), .

No, there is no mass increase in Bastion mode anymore, even if you can't align or move when it is active.

Current amarauders proposal is effectively weaker than the ones in TQ. THe speed/signature they are loosing is WAY more relevant than a button thnat makes you a fat static target that can be ignored until later int he fight because you are not going anywhere.. while at same time not being any more dangeorus than you were when you could still move.

web STRENGHT bonus yes. but if was a web RANGE bonus...

If you're sitting still it's even more reason to have a web strength bonus, given you cannot move to reduce transversal of orbiting targets...

People do all the time. And besides, the point is you would get into web range before dropping into bastion (hello MJD bonus...)

I think the general consenous here is [...]

- change golem to pure torp boat (bastion biiig torp velo bonus and exlosion velocity bonus, remove from golem TP bonus, replace it with explosion radius bonus, maybe -1med slot)

Maybe this has been asked or covered already. Can you use MJD while in Bastion mode? If no absolutely pointless bait ship.

[...] what's the point of that TP bonus? [...]

I'm sure most people would want a salvager bonus

• Decrease of applied damage
• over tanked cow
• reduction in high sec income per hour

there is no worthless, theyy will be used for certain situations like high chance of e war, but they will not be used for incursions. i make more isk/hour in 0.0. only the bigger incursions increase income compared to 0,0 and wh space, and there you can't take the marauder.

Can you please tell me, by side-by-side comparison, what makes it NOT interesting in my last proposal?

And, exactly how you find an immobile sitting sniper platform more interesting while giving "ZZZZZZZ" to having mobility and more options?

An iteration that promises something which brings an answer to a non-asked question of pvp marauders: Being able to do something that you shouldn't use. Outside of bastion mode everything else is nerfed. You will only get mjd bonus. So, this iteration is nothing but a nerf to never-existed pvp marauder.

Just sayin'

Mach's will get nerfed, so now marauders will replace them :P
Just joking.

But, the turnaround is that current iteration is much cheaply and easily replacable by a tornado and 1-2 ships accompanying it ^.^

Edit: A single domi should be enough also.

That was a pvp side, in pve, you can accomplish same with a maelstrom or dominix already!

Stored in cargo, drags loot to a central location, frees up x number of high slots for smart bombs, etc. Sounds good on paper anyway...

Given the new platypus and dead goose models I'd vote for a "bumping ugliess " repost.

Since the mass increase for bastion mode deployment has been removed, it's time for a fun new EVE pasttime.

You can also turn it into a contest.

This is the game:

You'll need:


One deployed marauder in bastion mode per team participating
One random canister 100km away (or any other fun distance)
And at least one (preferrably) well tanked bumping ship per team.

The goal:

Bump the marauder of your team as close as possible to the canister before...

A) an arbitrary timer runs out (for e.g. 30 seconds)
B) the bumping ship gets destroyed by the other teams marauders before the bumping timer runs out.

The rules:

The teams can either start bumping all at once (the great melee) or take turns (the gauntlet).


During he great melee bumpers are allowed to shoot the other teams bumpers as long as the timer is on.
During the gauntlet only one bumper per timer may be deployed all already deployed marauders may shoot the active bumper as long as the timer is on.
The deployed marauders may never killed. --> You can however bump them away from the target zone.

Who won? Or how many points do I get for doing all that crap?


The team who's marauder is closest to the can is rewarded with 10 points.
The second gets 5 points
And the third gets 3 points
The 4th and all therafter receive no additional points

Now the fun part (mo' points fo' mo' killz)


Destroying a Pirate ship bumber awards 3 points to the team who got the killmail
Destroning A T2 ship bumber awards 2 points to the team who got the killmail
Destroying a T1 shup bumber awards 1 points to the team who got the killmail
The team who "accidentally" destroyed one of the deployed marauders looses 4 points
The team who lost a deployed marauder gets 2 points (Note: you can self destruct your own marauder to award your team 2 points)

What now?

You can play as many rounds as you like or until you run out of ships. Have fun!

EDIT: The Name suggestion of Ralph King-Griffin sounds cool. "Bumping Uglies" whoever got another cool suggestion on how to call the game, just post it I'll try to get them all into this post.

Neut immunity would be so absurdly overpowered it doesn't even bear thinking about, what should happen is that the bastion module should require some cap per cycle, even just 1GJ, so that ASB fitted marauders have some weakness.

With the V1 bastion module an ASB Vargur's tank is bordering on God-mode and requires no cap to run at all.

Cap booster charges, and it's hold is massive. Compare the 2 shield marauders to the 2 armour marauders.

Vargur & Golem - Capless weapons and the option of ASB's (capless tanking, improved by the capless bastion module)

Paladin & Kronos - Needs cap for weapons and tank, bastion module requires no cap but what does it matter if you can't run that bastion boosted repper.

Armour marauders are getting the shaft being very vulnerable to cap warfare whilst the other 2 are virtually immune.

Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.

see marauder on dscan while your small gang is out, 1 dude reships into 8 rack capboosted neutageddon with scram, marauder is capless in 6 seconds, unless it a paladin then it takes 10 seconds from the second you land on him. You can even run a 1 vamp 7 rack neutageddon with scram and only add 3ish seconds to both totals. The second you see the transformation back to normal mode you scram, no mjding, your small gang mops up the rest of the frigs while you sit at 0 on the marauder cycling neuts as cap required. If he does MJD away, you just mjd right after him and reapply neuts and scram. He'll only get 30-90 cap back during your relock time.

Ha it wont matter according to you you shouldnt take any damage.

First off its a naga not nado and second off its shoots further than 80 so you can actually hit them twice as far

Given the fact it is just a ceptor and not half the line up of ships i think thats pretty damn good actually. You assume every fleet will have one.

Also Ytterbium
-have you considered replacing TP bonus on golem for an explosion radius bonus???

Simple Solution;

When the changes go live, just let the marauder market tank, don't buy them , don't build them and then CCP might take notice of bad design changes.

1. Its not debatable, its just wrong. Remove tracking bonuses from all marauders and force them to use Target Painters by wasting med slots, or delete target painter bonus on Golem to place this ship in line with others
2. Secondly, Golem got cap intensive shield tank which uses.. med slots, and if u equip MJD, cap injector/recharge and TP in very same med slots, u got only 4 slots left for tanking mods. Compare this to other marauders who can use their ship bonuses and have 7 slots tank in same time.

3. Not to mention that all Kronos, Paladin and Vargur got additional damage bonus (5% to damage or 5% to rof) while Golem is the only one who dont have it, which is hilarious considering this is the only one marauder thats not dealing insta damage. Missiles must fly to target and this is another big drawback of this ship (but its how missiles works).

4. Last but not least. Since bastion module will make them immune to tracking disruptors (infavour of all 3 marauders using turrets), will bastion module make Golem immune from defender missiles too? How many times people need to ask this question for u to answer?

U can allways use TP even without bonus, and if they change it to 25% reduction of all missiles sig radius, u wont need to use this module just as other marauders lost his EW in favour of tracking bonuses.

the people who wants to remove tp from golem are cruise missile users i promise you. They are not torp user. Since ccp buff the cruise missiles they see no point to use torps so the tp bonus is unneeded. Well we can fix this by buffing torps or nerfing cruise.

Scroll back a couple pages.
There was a player that put up a design that looks freaking awesome.

The first design he put out would make for a mean golem.

If you had listened to the player you wouldnt have nerfed them in the first place. What about nullsec? do you honestly think people can use bastion in null in a pve setting?

Got web?

That is not true, at all. But please, make your case.

You obviously missed part of the discussion...

Brawling style of pve(conflagration) no longer viable due to web bonus being removed. Less isk/h
Fewer slots for dps mods or tank because I now need to fit tracking mods. Less isk/h
Smaller drones = less isk/h
Bastion is suicide in null

Oh god the stupid, it hurts.

Hint! Brawling works fine, if you do the right sites the rats will spawn on top of you, and the few that get away you can easily approach with a 100m ab + overheated web. 1400 dps on something that doesnt move is good, mkay?

And what in gods name made you think that i use salv drones? does going from hammers to hobs not reduce my income?

Jesus christ. You're like a besserwisser with a 70 IQ. It's been grand talking to you, but my efforts are needed elsewhere.

" sh*t ,rational argument.......scarper!!!!"

Pitty, that was shaping up to be a nice little back and fourth.

These Ships are now awesome!!!

P.S. What is the Plural of Kronos? Kronosi, Kronosses, Kroni? Pls tell meeee!!! :)

OOH, ooh, ohohohohohoh!!!!!!

I have an idea!!!!
It's so crazy that CCP actually implemented it on the ships!!!!
I mean, if not for the words, I would never have thought about it!!!

If you're in a mission where rats spawn on top of you... wait... I'm too excited... I need to calm down....






Ok, I'm better..... you can...... MJD!!!!

I KNOW!!!!

Crazy right????

Crazy right????

Replacing the local tank bonus with a pointless web bonus? Please tell me this is a belated April fool. Adding MJD bonus alongside the range bonus of the static Bastion module then returning a 10km web bonus makes zero sense.

Please stop listening to whiny overentitled niche-setup Incursion runner(s) who can't adapt, and roll back to a version of the Marauders that doesn't make me wish I'd bought a Nightmare instead.

Why dont we make them exact same ship s then and just change the weapons?

aa i was under the impression that CCP employees were PAID to do their job. If I proposed to my boss doing a horrible work just because that way woudl be easier.. I would loose my job...

When it comes to the Kronos, I still feel it would make a good drone boat, expecially considering bastion.

Remove turret slots
Remove 100% role bonus
New role bonus - Can equip 4 drone control units
Per level bonuses go to drone tracking and HP
Possible drone control range bonus
Possible drone bay per lvl bonus

This means it would launch 9 sentry/heavy drones.
This is comperable DPS to other Marauders.

Yeah, if it wasn't for the venomous spur they'd be great family pets.

golem is a torpedo boat cant compare to a missile boat like ravens. Bastion works well for torpedo and does nothing for cruise missiles.

it doesnt help with defenders , it might if you put 2 velocity riggs on it but then the bastion get stacked penalty to almost nothing at that point , so i think most people would not gonna try that route. The only think it helps cruise is less volley counting.

curise missile is just boring . no need to move, no need to change ammo type , just shoot and warp to next gate.

There must be some sort of stacking penalty in-place, because the range bonus doesn't actually seem that significant. It looks like it would basically replace a hydraulic rig.

For the sake of my beloved Vargur could the Bastion module get the same properties concerning optimal and fall off bonus then tracking computer and -enhancer:

[Vargur, Tech2 copy 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Target Painter II
Large Micro Jump Drive

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Ionic Field Projector I

Warrior II x5
Bouncer II x2


Tell me where i got an extra in this fitting. Everything i told was already with bastion. thanks for your senseless post.

Serious question: Why do you put efforts int redesigning the Paladin if then only give it such a dull and unoriginal Bastion animation? Why not extend some hull postings on the newly designed front or on the sides? Fizzy said these department has no time for real new CS modes. Is that all, what the so busy art department can do? That's a bad joke! I ask you to give the Paladin the Bastion animation that it deserves, or change the model back to the old new Apoc because it looks better than the new model after all.

And my god i wanted to like the new marauder, i really did, i want to fly them.,...theres just no situation where it would be better to use these marauders over a small gang of different ships. (as i dont solo )

how can you say golem is designed as a torpedo platform??? any referrance??? to be sure about Lai Dai philosopy you can check descriptions of the ships which they are developed by Lai Dai..

I'd love to see that quote.

Ah, but yours is from June 2012 and out of date. Have a new one, from Fanfest 2013.

This thread needs an FAQ section for the following.

"Where's my web bonus?"

"Why doesn't the Golem affect RHML?"

"Why doesn't Bastion have a damage bonus?"


Because it seems impossible for people to go back three pages to the last time said question was asked.

or why does the golem still have a target painter bonus?

My Vargur has AB, low sig, speed, it speed tanks, it closes, aligns to run parallel to apply damge...

Insults? i did nto insult anyone. Peopel shoudl learn to read the covnersation before getting in middle of it. I was answering to another post that asked for the range bonus to be removed because it was too powerful

For god sake people, learn to use a forum, read the thread, not singleposts. This is not twitter!

Not raging on you, jsut bafled on a person that half read a post that states that my other post was upon what another guy posted ignoring the part of another guy and transforming it in " imagination".


Too many people read these messages as twitter, these youglings that do not grasp what a FORUM is.

If somebody will call Marauders as a "subcap dreads"...

First page, first post, sixth paragraph (second bullet), second sentence. Designing something in a way of its big brother makes it "mini big-brother". CCP designs some ships in this way.

For example, from the design perspective I can show you 2 bigger brothers of a hurricane. With Rubicon, this number will become 3.

However, like Dreadnoughts, they cannot be remote assisted or even move when that happens.

Bravo Debora! That has always been my question of why people keep calling them mini-dreads but not mini-rorquals.

I kindly ask you what will happen;

1- When you engage bastion mode and
2- When you engage siege mode

I have always wondered why they put some sort of rainbow patterns in IQ tests and ask for correct answer that matches the original pattern. They don't look the same but normal people keep finding correct answer... If you get what I mean.

When you engage bastion, you get 100 percent same penalties with siege modules.
When you engage bastion, you won't get 100 percent same benefits as you get with siege modules.

Dreads also get tanking bonus when in siege. But since their ehp is so high already, they get more of a active tanking bonus rather than resists. Check here

When in bastion mode I also propose damage projection bonus, it doesn't have to be %700 as dreads. %100 would be more realistic, however, I simply propose adding turret/launcher hardpoints to marauders since they will increase options for sandbox.

Nothing compared to the shitstorm that will be the T3 teircide.

You shall henceforth be referred to as CCP Griefer.

I really and I mean really hate you now